Skip to content
Main Street Plaza

A Community for Anyone Interested in Mormonism.

Main Street Plaza

A Community for Anyone Interested in Mormonism.

The Brethren Want Us to Shut Up About Heavenly Mother Already, Again

Holly, March 11, 2022March 11, 2022

Discussions are proliferating among liberal Mormons on social media about recent efforts by the Brethren to let the Saints know that they better stop talking about Heavenly Mother, ASAP. Here’s a good early summation of what’s going on, from Twitter.

In 1985, when I was a missionary, a relative sent me a copy of the Exponent II with a personal essay by a woman who was disciplined for discussing Heavenly Mother. It really upset me at the time. I wanted to track it down today; it took me quite a bit of effort, but I found it: a letter by Nadine Faith, on pages 14-15 of Exponent II Summer 1985, Vol. 11 no. 4. (The sorts of statements she was punished for are in an essay on pages 4-5 of the same issue.)

All of which is to say that this is an old problem, and it’s just getting worse. This recent move is dickish and mean, but it’s also doomed to fail, for at least three reasons:

1. The brethren already legitimated discussing Heavenly Mother with the publication of “‘A Mother There’: A Survey of Historical Teachings about Mother in Heaven” by Paulsen and Pulido in BYU Studies in 2011. Even if someone scrubs the webpage, thousands of people have already read and downloaded it.

2. LDS theology is incoherent without an empowered heavenly mother who is equal to heavenly father.

3. There are too many people who just don’t give a damn about the queasiness a few dozen old men feel when they hear kids today discuss heavenly mother. Janice Allred was excommunicated in 1995 for discussing Heavenly Mother; her sister Margaret Toscano was excommunicated for the same thing in 2000. But their excommunications haven’t shut them up; they’ve continued to speak, write, and publish about Mother in Heaven.

They and many others prove that no man can deny anyone the right to discuss, depict, write poems/essays/novels about, create speculative theology about, sing hymns to, pray to, or worship Heavenly Mother or any other manifestation of the divine feminine.

Six months ago or so I wrote here about an awful man who gave the church a lot of problems after it put him in leadership positions not despite the fact but “because he was bossy, nasty, and mean, with a high very opinion of his own authority and righteousness and little sense of the limits of either.” It was one way the church has hoisted itself with its own petard.

This is another problem of the church’s own creation, the result of a feature rather than a bug in the church’s theology. The church tells Latter-day Saints to imagine and emulate heavenly parents in heavenly heterosexual marriages, so they do–and to make that exercise work, the heavenly parents being imagined and emulated must actually look and act and feel like the humans trying to relate to them. No one in the COJCOLDS actually wants a world where earthly mothers act like Heavenly Mother and hand the kids over to Dad and Big Brother the moment the kids are born, after which everyone pretends Mom doesn’t actually have anything to do with the kids’ existence. Since Latter-day Saints will never behave like that or even think they should, they have to make Heavenly Mother act more like them. Otherwise, it’s all completely incoherent.

Then the church tells Latter-day Saints to prayerfully seek revelation about Godhood and Godliness, so they do, and they get a revelation that Heavenly Mother is the Holy Ghost or whatever.

For people who supposedly base their lives on scripture, these dudes seem really unable to grasp the very old principle that “as ye sow, so shall ye reap.” What did they think would happen when they made heaven all about heterosexual nuclear families?

Family Feminism Heavenly Mother Mormon Doctrine Mother in Heaven Motherhood Sex and Gender

Post navigation

Previous post
Next post

Related Posts

One Man Against the Machine

September 24, 2008September 24, 2008

If only one gay Mormon child hears him then it will have been worth it. No More Goodbyes!

Read More

May I have this dance?

April 29, 2007April 29, 2007

I couldn’t believe I was finally old enough to attend my first church dance! I had waited months for this! I’d turned twelve in May, and the first dance after that happened to be a stake Halloween dance. I decided I’d go as a gypsy that year. My mom helped…

Read More

An Interesting Encounter

January 7, 2010January 10, 2010

Earlier today a young man entered my office seeking my adviceThis is not unusual for someone in my line of business. But it is a rare day when someone comes to me, in my capacity as an apostate, seeking advice regarding of all subjectsreligionparticularly the Mormon religion. But it happened…

Read More

Comments (7)

  1. Monya Baker says:
    March 12, 2022 at 3:35 pm

    So agree with this: For people who supposedly base their lives on scripture, these dudes seem really unable to grasp the very old principle that “as ye sow, so shall ye reap.” What did they think would happen when they made heaven all about heterosexual nuclear families?

    Also, I wonder if any of the ardent excommunicators have thought about Heavenly Mother in terms of what Heavenly Mother wants. I remember asking about her and being told that Heavenly Father doesn’t want us talking about her. Now I realize I didn’t even consider what she wanted, and it tells me so much about what I allowed myself to want

  2. Holly says:
    March 12, 2022 at 4:43 pm

    Hi Monya–

    You are right: it’s very rare for anyone to take Heavenly Mother’s wishes into account in all of this theology. I wondered, for instance, how she felt when God banished a third of the hosts of heaven to hell for all eternity. I can easily imagine her being really pissed about it. Maybe that’s why we never hear about her: she went off to minister to those kids.

    A long time ago, on this blog, I suggested that one way to understand heterosexual Mormon marriage is through the song “You and Me (But Mostly Me)” from the BOM Musical:

    ‘It works perfectly in the show with two male missionary companions, in part because it’s an attitude enough 19-year-old Mormon guys have. But imagine it sung with a young Mormon man and his fiance: it works even better. Both of them very likely accept that she is “the side dish on a slightly smaller plate,” precisely because that’s how they’ve been trained to see marriages: he is the captain, she is the mate.’

    It seems obvious to me that Mormonism expects women to be the mate and the side dish for all eternity, so that what women want is a matter of indifference.

    https://mainstreetplaza.com/2011/05/12/mormon-beards-%e2%80%93-exploring-issues-patriarchy-duplicity/#comment-89247

  3. Johnny Townsend says:
    March 13, 2022 at 2:18 pm

    One of the bizarre justifications for not talking about Heavenly Mother was so we could “protect” her from people who might say mean things. As if anyone who’s gone through a lifetime of trials and succeeded at overcoming them to the extent they qualify for the top level of the Celestial Kingdom was a dainty flower who couldn’t take the heat like her strong husband could. Even in my True Believer days, that seemed unlikely.

  4. Holly says:
    March 13, 2022 at 4:47 pm

    Truly, Johnny! Like an omnipotent being is really threatened by the utterances of mere humans. It’s just nuts.

  5. chanson says:
    March 16, 2022 at 2:32 am

    Re: “No one in the COJCOLDS actually wants a world where earthly mothers act like Heavenly Mother and hand the kids over to Dad and Big Brother the moment the kids are born, after which everyone pretends Mom doesn’t actually have anything to do with the kids’ existence.”

    That is so true. Why are the GAs so intent on enforcing this incoherent theology that doesn’t work for so many people who want to feel a spiritual connection with their “Heavenly Parents”? Is it to avoid looking strange to other Christians? Or maybe to prevent LDS women from claiming any leadership in worship and theology?

  6. Holly says:
    March 18, 2022 at 4:53 pm

    re: ‘Why are the GAs so intent on enforcing this incoherent theology that doesn’t work for so many people who want to feel a spiritual connection with their “Heavenly Parents”? Is it to avoid looking strange to other Christians? Or maybe to prevent LDS women from claiming any leadership in worship and theology?’

    I think it’s both those things. But I also think they don’t want to upset men who like being in charge and special. Men pay more tithing than women, and if men stop supporting the church, it might have to dip into its rainy day fund the next time it wants to build a mall.

  7. Chino Blanco says:
    March 27, 2022 at 9:54 am

    Just stumbled across this while surfing around for the latest on the batshit insane She-Who-Shall-Not-Be-Capitalized crackdown The Brethren are apparently cooking up… and nice to see one of my favorite old haunts is still haunting “the dudes” lol. Rock on!

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *

Mormon Alumni Association Books

Latest Comments:

  1. termal kamerayla su kaçak tespiti on LDS vs LGBTQ:  Nathan Kitchen sheds false binariesJune 21, 2025

    termal kamerayla su kaçak tespiti Ekip çok organize, kaça?? an?nda bulup çözdüler. https://bence.net/read-blog/25188

  2. Cara B. Klein on My conspiracy theory #2April 26, 2025

    Wow, I had never thought about it in that way before You have really opened my eyes to a new…

  3. chanson on LDS vs LGBTQ:  Nathan Kitchen sheds false binariesApril 16, 2025

    The haiku at the end is lovely. Sounds like a great book!

  4. Donna Banta on LDS vs LGBTQ:  Nathan Kitchen sheds false binariesApril 14, 2025

    I imagine anyone who has tried to change the church from within will identify with Kitchen's story. I especially like…

  5. Johnny Townsend on LDS vs LGBTQ:  Nathan Kitchen sheds false binariesApril 14, 2025

    This was a painful review to read. For many years, I held the same hope, that the LDS church would…

8: The Mormon Proposition Acceptance of Gays Add new tag Affirmation angry exmormon awards Book Reviews BYU comments Conformity Dallin H. Oaks DAMU disaffected mormon underground Dustin Lance Black Ex-Mormon Exclusion policy Excommunicated exmormon faith Family feminism Gay Gay Love Gay Marriage Gay Relationships General Conference Happiness Homosexual Homosexuality LDS LGBT LGBTQ Link Bomb missionaries Modesty Mormon Mormon Alumni Association Mormonism motherhood peace politics Polygamy priesthood ban Sunstone temple

Awards

William Law X-Mormon of the Year:

  • 2023: Adam Steed
  • 2022: David Archuleta
  • 2021: Jeff T. Green
  • 2020: Jacinda Ardern
  • 2019: David Nielsen
  • 2018: Sam Young
  • 2017: Savannah
  • 2016: Jeremy Runnells
  • 2015: John Dehlin
  • 2014: Kate Kelly
  • 2013: J. Seth Anderson and Michael Ferguson
  • 2012: David Tweede
  • 2011: Joanna Brooks
  • 2010: Monica Bielanko
  • 2009: Walter Kirn

Other Cool Sites!

WasMormon.org
©2025 Main Street Plaza | WordPress Theme by SuperbThemes