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Spain Investigates Jay Bybee for Torture

According to Harper’s, Spanish authorities are investigating Bush administration officials for torture. That includes the former BYU law professor Jay Bybee who signed off on John Yoo’s infamous torture memos. The premier Spanish newspaper El País reports that judge Baltasar Garzón is involved in the investigation. Garzon is famous for…

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Comments (59)

  1. Obviously she’s abusive and she has no business being in a position that involves children (so much for “inspiration” in making callings), but can we really conclude from this video that “so many Mormons are angry and abusive”? Do abuse rates in Mormon homes differ from those in other homes? (Besides lesbian homes, of course.)

  2. — 1) — Hey Kuri, I agree that it’s awfully silly to draw any conclusions about Mormons generally as a result of watching a single video. That’s why I intend to collect a few dozen of these on a new website and promote them with a million-dollar TV ad campaign, because that would be, like, a totally legit way to prove something about Mormon character. Or something. /snark 😉

    — 2) — Anyway, my heavy-handed sarcasm aside, when I saw this vid over at r/exmormon, it did remind me of something I’d just read in Mark Feldstein’s book about Jack Anderson and Richard Nixon (Poisoning the Press), pages 20-23:

    A decade after Richard Nixon’s birth, just thirty miles away, Jack Northman Anderson was born in October 1922. Like his future adversary, Anderson grew up with a volatile authoritarian father and a strict, unbending religious orthodoxy: the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, more commonly known as Mormons …

    Like the Nixons, family life for the Andersons centered on their religion …

    Jack’s father developed a stubborn austerity excessive even by Depression-era standards … Jack was convinced that his family didn’t need to make such sacrifices but that his father had a “martyr complex” that made him “glory in his poverty.”

    Orlando Anderson also possessed a violent temper … Decades later, Jack’s boyhood friend, Darwin Knudsen, still shook his head recalling Orlando’s harsh punishment of Jack’s noisy five-year-old brother: “His father opened his fingers and pinched his nose till the tears just streamed down his face.” Periodically, Orlando’s eruptions became so explosive that he would abandon his family for weeks at a time …

    Like Frank Nixon, Orlando Anderson tried to build his son’s character by imposing outdoor manual labor … After two weeks, his knees raw with scars and “cooked” from the desert heat, “I abruptly quit, pedaled my bike over to the nearest newspaper, the Murray Eagle, and talked my way into a reporting job.”

    … said his friend Knudsen: “I think one of the driving forces in Jack’s behavior was to escape from this rigid discipline.”

    The driving force to escape – and to triumph over arbitrary authority – would last the rest of his life.

    — 3) — Since the conversation is still ongoing about that thread and you’ve now mentioned abuse rates, here’s an easy study to conduct: What percentage of commenters over at that thread who report serving missions also report experiencing abusive mission leadership?

    At the end of the day, it seems pretty obvious that the LDS church is a magnet for overbearing authoritarian personality types and that has always bugged me way more than LDS history.

  3. Just for the record, as far as I am concerned, my mission president was a good person. I hated the numbers game. He didn’t invent it and used it sparingly.

    In my case, I have a complaint about the institution, not individuals.

  4. As for Jessica, obviously her actions are unacceptable. She is in over her head and needs treatment.

    Having five kids and adopting a sixth is hard on anyone. I am wondering if her talk about living in her house reflects frustrations of having to care for a child that is not her own.

    I am pleased that there is an intervention but I also find it troubling that she is being shamed in front of an audience and on national TV. That’s not the way to improve anything for anyone.

  5. Hellmut – Jessica submitted the video to Dr. Phil herself, thinking it would draw praise as an example of effective parenting.

    Re the adoption aspect, I suspect that many, many Mormon kids have grown up in otherwise loving homes where there’s a definite baseline understanding that “living under my roof requires strict compliance with my rules.”

  6. Yeah, I agree that overbearing authoritarian personality types thrive in the church. It’s ironic in light of the fact that the bit in the D&C about “unrighteous dominion” is probably one of the wisest passages in the uniquely Mormon canon.

    Jessica’s parenting looks like a good example of the “Dunning-Kruger Effect.”

    As for mission presidents, I had two and although one was rather stern I wouldn’t call either of them overbearing. OTOH, “overbearing” is a fair description of the GA (a 70) who came to “straighten out” the mission while I was there.

    Many people who go on the Dr. Phil Show seem to do so because they’re convinced that he will validate their rightness in some interpersonal conflict. And it also seems that the more convinced they are of that, the more likely they are to be wrong.

    But that’s Dr. Phil’s modus operandi: his guests get intervention and (often) free treatment arranged by his staff, but in return they must accept 1) public humiliation and 2) Dr. Phil’s authority. It seems like a pretty hard bargain, but I guess it helps some people.

  7. Pretty horrifying.

    I’m not sure abuse is more prevalent within the church than without, although I do think that the church can encourage people to wield their authority in unhealthy ways. I also think that the church doesn’t always deal with abuse properly, i.e. notifying the authorities, helping the abused exit the situation, etc.

    When people think that God is on their side, they’re capable of all kinds of atrocities, from abusing a kid to blowing up airplanes.

  8. Someone needs to take that child away. I don’t know a lot about the Mormon religion, but i doubt that her faith has anything to do with her being a terrible, abusive mother.

  10. I don’t care what religion you are, abuse is abuse and that was most assuredly abuse. It doesn’t matter what YOU have tried and that has not been effective. You keep looking for a way to get through to that child. Not teach them that to get what they want they have to be abusive. That is the only lesson to be learned from punishments like that. I hope DCFS has stepped in to evaluate this family and their disfunction before they do finally and completely damage these children. Someone needs to advocate for them.

  11. i dont think this should be a “mormon” issue, this is an abuse issue – reminds me of the book “a child called it” where the mother singled out just one of her children to basically bully, Does she do this punishment to her other (and natural) children? like it was already quoted, she claims she does not allow lying, she promised to love and take care of that little boy – the only liar i see is HER.

  12. OMG I cant believe she has been allowed to get away with this ,Does it mean its ok because now she’s appeared on Dr Phil that no action should be taken against her …….. That poor little boy should be taken away from her and be allowed to l ive with parents that will give him the love he deserves.Its obviouse she doesn’t love him like one of her own .Because no parent would treat their child like that out of love . Is it any wonder the poor little mite lies to her ,he is so scared of what will happen even by telling the truth ….PLease does anybody know the outcome of this ? She is a monster .

  13. Jessica is failing because she is too controlling. Dr. David Cross, a developmental psychologist from Texas Christian University, once told me that the harder you are trying to be in control of your children, the less you are.

    I am all in favor for discipline but discipline has to accommodate a child’s nature, not the other way around.

  14. I don’t know. My sister is LDS, Bishop’s wife, high callings and she pretty much disciplines like this woman does. Hot sauce and cold showers. Do they teach this is Relief Society or something?

  15. I have an 18 month old son. He does things we don’t like. We don’t punish him yet as he doesn’t understand punishment at this point, though we do correct his behavior. But I’ve seen how he responds when he eats something spicy (he eats what we eat and occasionally gets food that is too spicy for him). It tears my heart out when he starts crying because food is too spicy. He doesn’t understand spicy. And he doesn’t understand why we would give him something spicy. I did give him something a little spicy once to see if he’d like it. He didn’t, and I felt bad.

    This mom should be shamed. And she should lose custody of her adopted child; not the others, but her home environment is not ideal. It’s not the most horrific punishment out there. That’s true. But it’s abusive. I have no idea how kids could still love their parents after having something like that happen to them. What a mean, mean woman!

  16. What a sick excuse for a human being. I can’t believe she actually believes herself worthy to walk amongst the human race, to treat a child like that, especially a child you adopted, you made a commitment to love and care for that child, and you threw it right out the fuckin door. i hope you choke.

  19. This video is horrible – no child should be treated like this. There are so many people that want to be parents and don’t get the chance and then we have this? It doesn’t make any sense. You deserves to be treated the same way!!!

  20. Can I get a ruling on Dan’s comment? I know we don’t like deleting comments around here, but I’m wondering if maybe some lines need to be drawn for this thread?

  24. Looking back at my comment I feel that perhaps I was to harsh. And yes theres no need for threats, but the fact of the matter is that this women is For one a bad mother and two a bad person for being able to do this To a child.

  26. I cried right along with this little boy as I watched the video and still think about him. What I don’t understand… Why would she stick with this particular punishment and abandon all the other “norm” forms of punishments? Obviously this isn’t working either so what’s next? That’s my fear. I think she’s using this/him as an excuse to let her “demons” out. It’s not about him misbehaving as ALL children do. I would think it’s a kinda expected/understandable behavior from adopted children who are still trying to test the waters to see if indeed they are going to be loved regardless. Her issues are deep and she’s bleeding them onto this little boy. It doesn’t take a Dr. Phil to see that and the problem I have with his treatment is that he want’s this womans mother to be “his eyes” and “monitor” the situation. Apparently she’s been doing that this whole time and found nothing wrong with it so that the hell is she going to report back. Doesn’t take a genius to see this is a cycle. REMOVE THE BOY FROM HER HOME!! Geez! Why is she being given another chance? She had a chance when she was given those children and she f’ed it up. That was her chance. Now please someone give this little boy one and get him out of there along with his little brother.

  29. OMG..she obviously has no love or emotion towards that poor child..sure he isnt hers anyway so maybe she never bonded with him, it actually appears in that clip that she hates him and is venting all her anger onto him, the only stress in your life is YOU to HIM you pig…i have a child with severe ADHD and ODD….and i would never ever dream of doing anything like that, now thats stress, not a few goddam lies or a little misbehaving..i am still deeply upset over seen that clip…Christ woman im glad you dont live near me…..YOU DO NOT AND SHOULD NOT HAVE CHILDREN NEXT TO OR NEAR YOU EVER….

  32. As discussed in the book “Under the Banner of Heaven,” violence and torture run deep in this religion’s history–and judging from this video, that ideology remains present today.

  34. I’m going to take the (probably) dangerous step of defending Jessica a bit. What she did is absolutely abuse and should be stopped immediately.

    She’s fallen prey to the misapprehension that parents are supposed to control their children like petty military commanders. I’ve struggled to avoid the same mistake. As frustrations mount, it’s easy to escalate trying to gain control of a child who challenges your presumed authority. Jessica has spiraled out of control.

    It’s a very human thing to want control. That’s part of why many religions thrive: they convince us that we have some control over our destiny.

    I hope for her sake and the sake of her family that she can wake up to a new way to see parenting and learns to lose control. There but for the grace of Fortuna go I.

  35. Mr Blake, for whatever reason she did this horrible thing to that boy, and she had done it before to him, she has no excuse and no defence is justified!

  36. I am pretty sure that Jonathan agrees with you, Jim. Jessica’s behavior is unacceptable but there are reasons for her behavior that deserve consideration; not because they are an excuse but because we need to be able to relate to the many “Jessicas” out there so that we can change their behavior.

  37. I know there are reasons for her behavior but “we” can’t change anyone elses behavior,only they can. Reasons quickly become excuses. This boy is the same age and size as my youngest grandson and I related to him.
    Also, I am not a Morman but other than her seeming to be an official of the church I really don’t see how it relates. These kind of things happen in all walks of life. But the picture of Jesus on her wall as she took the boy into the bathroom for punishment was wrong!

  38. Jessica is a human being with human weaknesses. That’s not an excuse. That’s a call to empathy for both the child and his abuser.

    I’m skeptical whenever I hear a person described as some sort of non-human (e.g. calling her a monster). This happens with a wide variety of offenders: sexual predators, mass murderers, torturers, and in this case an abusive mother. It seems like the result of another human weakness: the desire to cut off empathy for someone by dehumanizing them so that we can protect our own egos. We don’t want to face that we both belong to the same group (i.e. humanity) because that would reflect poorly on us.

    “I would never do anything like that,” we say, but evil is banal and lurks in every heart waiting for the right situation to blossom. If we hide from our potential for evil, we will be unprepared to curb it in ourselves when our time comes.

    So again, I’m suggesting the wisest, most humane reaction is paradoxical: a mixture of empathy for both the child and his abuser.

  39. Only the Shadow knows what evil lurks in the hearts of man! However, I have a difficult time finding much empathy for the woman(I wont call her Mother)in this event. It is the first job of every human being to work to overcome the evil that lurks in us all. Islam says that this is the first and mast important jihad to over come the evil in yourself.
    I never said she was less than human, a monster, or tried to do anything to make myself feel better. Indeed my first reaction was I wanted to rip her face off but that would put me in the same catagory as her. She needs help not punishment, thats for sure. She does not need people telling her it’s OK she could not help it.

  40. You have called her a monster. Others have. Also, I understand the unwillingness to call Jessica a mother because you see that as a title of honor. So do I. This is, however, an example of what I’m talking about. I think we don’t want to grant her the title of mother because part of us doesn’t want to admit that many mothers have behaved like Jessica did, that for many people, this is what motherhood is. We want to deny her membership in the group of other mothers, making her less-than a mother.

    I agree that no one should tell her that she couldn’t help herself. I hope that’s not how I’ve been understood.

  43. I am still disturbed having watched the snippet of the torture of that child. Do the authorities in America condone this behavior? I am sure they do not, but I believe that Dr. Phil has an obligation to pass on the tape to the appropriate authorities so that all the children of this particular household are monitored for similar abuse. The child in question should be removed immediately from this demented woman’s control and placed in a safe refuge. May her god, who ever he or she is, forgive this cruel, abusive woman, and may her church enlighten her as to the true meaning of parenting.
    I am a non religion person.

  44. I want ot adopt that child. poor thing:( that B*****H have no rights to have ANY child, especially adopted one, the way she treat that poor boy is just ugh. AND THEN SHE GET THAT 5 MINTS.FAME ON THE NATIONAL TV. WOW!! and when she talk about that she is smiling.. i wish I can go to her house and pour all that hot sause on her face,SO SHE GET FEELING HOW IT IS ON THE SMALL CHILD… agencies for adopting are making mistakes, if you not so rich, you can’t adopt it,even if you will give that child most important thing ,love!!!!!!!.,and they think…. oh you going to church on regular basis,yeah you are good fit for adoption…such a shame,

  46. I have heard about this video for months and FINALLY brought myself to watch it. Honestly, I had to stop the video before it was over. This woman is a sick control freak. I know there is a lot of “mormon” bashing going on with this thread – I will not bash however I will say that I personally think that many of these abuse cases DO involved religious freaks (as I like to call them). I honestly hope her children are taken away from her. There are ways to go about discipline without these barbaric ways – I have 3 kids, believe me, they are not perfect, nor am I, but would NEVER EVER resort to the treatment that the child on the video received – there comes a time when you reach your max frustration level – that’s the time you WALK AWAY, pick up a phone and call someone for help….not be a big overgrown ogre as this woman portrays herself to be. Again, I couldn’t even watch the video all the way through – my stomach was knotted and the tears started….I don’t care WHAT this 7 year old boy did – he could have kicked her in the face – nothing he did warranted her behavior…hope she gets the kids taken away, sent to prison and maybe someone bigger than her will show her what it feels like to be controlled……

  47. This is not even close to an appropriate way to judge the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. First of all, how is it to say that is taught, in any form, in the church. Get your facts straight first, from MULTIPLE sources. People today are satisfied by one source, whether it be accurate or not. This was a very bad attempt to prove ANYTHING about the church. Abuse is a show of character. Any religion can be practice by any type of character, it doesn’t mean that’s how all the followers act/are.

  48. Hey Jerry, are the “Hi, I’m so-and-so, and I’m a Mormon” ads an appropriate way to judge the LDS church? Do those ads prove anything about the church? According to your comment, I think you’d have to agree they don’t. So, why spend all that money to run them?

  49. Quiet day off from work her in Denmark – and then this pops in from Facebook…. I have to say that I’m horrofied and cannot believe my own ears and eyes!!! Never mind Jessica’s religion – never mind any kind of explanition!! Because there can never be one for what she does to her own child!!!! I hope and pray to God that this poor child has been given all the help he needs – and regarding Jessica I simply dont know what to say or hope… That she gets help? That her behavior has changed drasticully? That she now is aware of the abuse towords her own child? Poor Poor child – I’m in tears for him… to sit there with that hot sauce i his mouth and then his little body under icecold warter… My God!!!!

  50. WHY are ppl praying to God when u need the Devil to take care of that bitch !!
    In this case u have to fight evil with evil and show her the same mercy she shows the child !

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