“If I see Harry Reid in the temple, I’m going to hit him.”

Comments (121)

1. No one ever wants to discuss the Homosexual acts are a choice because they are either a choice or an illness and the Gay agenda will not confront that issue.

   The “gay agenda” has been underpinned by choice since the beginning, the choice to be with whomever you want to be with. So, in that sense I agree with you that all sexual acts are choices. But you don’t seem to realize that whenever conservative Christianity talks about sexuality as a “choice,” it’s always in the context that people are free to at any moment (that is, must immediately) choose to adhere to a particular sexual identity (heterosexuality). This is not how desire manifests itself across the human species. This is why the “gay agenda” leans toward innateness in many cases.

   Mormons frame it as an illness AND a choice. Perhaps you should think about the contradictoriness of that. For many decades now, homosexuality has been considered a normal variation of human sexuality. This is because people figured out that contradictory notions have be held to support the notion that it’s not a normal variation.

2. This thread looks like a transcript of an old Jerry Springer show. Christopher is a spoof, nest-ce pas?

3. Hmm, we just had April Fool’s Day, didn’t we…?

   Yet, I think he’s a real person and he’s serious. Just click on his name and go see his blog.

4. macpotter — Looks interesting, but I don’t think it’s relevant to this thread.

   Please email me so we can discuss putting up a post about the book: chanson dot exmormon at gmail dot com.

5. The relevant thread is probably this one: http://bycommonconsent.com/2010/04/02/correlation-an-uncorrelated-history-part-9-history-done-backwards/

   Daymon’s rant alone is worth the price of admission.

6. I am not a Mormon.

   I have never been to a Mormon Church nor have I ever seen one. I can’t even find a Mormon Church listed in the phone book.

   If I am Gay then it is obviously a choice since I have chosen not to have sex with men and have been happily married to the same woman for 32 years.

   Free speech is just that. It is not controlled. It does not imply a right unless a person says it is a right. I have no right to free speech on your site but if you do not allow it then you have restricted free speech (actually freedom of the press).

   I believe that gay tendencies are indeed genetic. I believe the the decision to act upon those tendencies is a choice. If it is not a choice then that person is mentally ill.

7. You may not be a Mormon, Christopher, but you do appear to be a pathological liar. Otherwise, how to explain your previous comment?

   President Tate denied me a Temple Recommend because I did not and do not file Income Tax returns. 32 years now. I was denied one even though I have signed letters from the IRS that I am not required to file a return. I simply moved to another Stake and had no more problems with temple recommends.

8. If I am Gay then it is obviously a choice since I have chosen not to have sex with men and have been happily married to the same woman for 32 years.

   Even assuming that is true (which I don’t, actually), repressing your true nature is not a conscious choice.

9. 3 Ne. 27: 8 And how be it my church save it be called in my name? For if a church be called in Moses name then it be Moses church; or if it be called in the name of a man then it be the church of a man; but if it be called in my name then it is my church, if it so be that they are built upon my gospel.

   I am a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. I am a Christian and a Latter-day Saint.

   There is no Mormon Church and never has been. And members that call themselves Mormons are not following the words of Christ recorded in the Book Mormon.

   And since Brigham Young said that the natural man is an enemy to God and I completely agree with that statement, repressing my true nature is what it takes to be a civilized and moral human being and not a licentious dog.

   The natural man would crap in own water supply. The natural man would not love his neighbor but would kill his neighbor if his neighbor got in his way. The natural man is a thief and lair and a pervert. The natural man covets. The natural man does not worship God and obey His laws. The natural man has no joy but only happiness and pleasure at best.

   Josh. 24: 15 And if it seem evil unto you to serve the Lord, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord.

   Naturally you have the right to worship or not to worship whatever you choose. ANd naturally there are costs for all choices.

10. I know, I know, I should not be encouraging this (since it has obviously passed the point of no return), but (out of curiosity) do you live “the principle”?

11. There is no Mormon Church and never has been. And members that call themselves Mormons are not following the words of Christ recorded in the Book Mormon.

    The Church is okay with the word “Mormons” and the word “Mormonism” when speaking of the cultural whole. It prefers “Latter-day Saint,” but Mormon is acceptable. You’re right that it doesn’t like the phrase “Mormon Church” and prefers “the Church.” But the point is, reporters that report on religion need a way of differentiating between the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and other churches. Not everyone is a Latter-day Saint, in case you haven’t noticed.

    The natural man would crap in own water supply.

    I’m beginning to think that this whole “natural man” argument is all that underpins arguments today’s against homosexuality. Is it not true that “natural man” reproduces? Does that mean that we should not reproduce?

12. arguments todays = today’s arguments

13. …repressing my true nature is what it takes to be a civilized and moral human being and not a licentious dog.

    I guess I can take that as an admission of your homosexuality, you poor repressed fellow. But the odd thing is, I express my true nature every day, yet I am a civilized and moral human being. Go figure.

    The natural man would crap in own water supply. The natural man would not love his neighbor but would kill his neighbor if his neighbor got in his way. The natural man is a thief and lair and a pervert. The natural man covets. The natural man does not worship God and obey His laws. The natural man has no joy but only happiness and pleasure at best.

    Nonsense. Your “natural man” is a religious fantasy. In reality, the natural man — human beings as they have actually evolved and actually live in actual societies — has a strong dislike of feces. The natural man generally obeys the rules of his society. The natural man usually worships some sort of god, which he may or may not believe to be a lawgiver. The natural man has as much joy as anyone else. It is the unnatural man who behaves otherwise.

14. I never said homosexuality was going to condemn anyone. I certainly do not know. Ben Franklin was a serial adulterer and was exalted for doing other things of great worth. I believe adultery is FAR more of a sin and damaging to liberty than homosexual fornication. Yet monogamy is certainly not the “natural” genetic tendency in most men.

    You folks want to label me and did so quickly but the facts are that I an not what most seem to believe. I have worked actively with the ACLU on many issues. My wife’s good friend is an openly gay man and activist. I certainly do not interfere with that friendship. We had three gay men to Thanksgiving dinner. One is a security guard that keeps my wife safe while she walks in the park every day. I trust him to keep her safe. A homophobe would not trust him.

    I am currently suing the Cops and have fought for civil rights with a passion for well over a decade. My family taught me to be a racist growing up but I saw that such things were wrong. My son is getting married and his wonderful wife to be is Asian, Black and American Indian. My mother would not even watch a TV show with Blacks in it.

    All people have difficult hills and mountains to climb in this life and I certainly do not know why God gives us the trials but this life is for each of us to grow. I believe we are becoming what we are. And after all, there is no such thing, currently, as eternal marriage for homosexual couples. You face those risks just as certainly as I face risks fighting the IRS and State governments.

    If the government was not so involved in our daily lives then the homosexual community would not have needed to fight for their fair share of government benefits and socialism and almost no one would have fought back against your activities.

    I do not approve of what I have seen of homosexual lifestyles and feel as though many and even most are very hurtful to those involved. But then so are many marriages. I do not believe in marriage licenses or Socialism or Driver’s licenses or gun licenses and I do not participate in Socialism. I fight against injustice but also understand that the majority has the right to establish laws that will help to secure their safety and happiness. It is an eternal struggle. Minority against majority. Jefferson was keenly aware of it.

    You all have the right to fight for your rights as you feel will best secure your safety and happiness. I have the right to oppose or support your efforts as I see fit just as I do with the ACLU.

    And I disagree with your claims about the natural man. The natural man is tamed by society and nurture over nature. If a child is not taught language at an early age they will never be able to communicate as we do. Nurture overcomes nature in many ways.

    Society puts a wild dog into a cage. It does the same to wild men. A dog knows that if he is hurt that he should not do the things that caused the hurt. That does not mean that the dog is any less a dog. Men obeying the law is no different. They subject themselves to good or evil because if they do not they are at least made uncomfortable. Many homosexuals would rather be homosexuals openly than to conform to society. Society in general has become more and more sexually immoral by previous standards. Historically that will harm the civilization to the point it is destroyed.

    I see that destruction coming and it has far more to do with the immorality of heterosexuals and socialism than homosexuals. Heterosexuals are the ones that have supported and allowed for their own slavery to occur by and through socialism.

    As a nation we ignored the warning signals which preceded the great depression; we were also unready to face the onrushing realities of Fascism and Communismwhereas today many are blind to the dangers of self-oppression, the chains we put on ourselves, which is the real tyranny of our time. Neal A. Maxwell, 1972

15. On Mormonism and Mormon Church. Long before the Church started pushing away for the word Mormon I knew that I was not a Mormon. My brother and I got in a fist fight over it because I refused to be a Mormon. He attacked me. VEry Christian of him.

    I refused to sing at my Grandfather’s funeral because they sang: I am a Mormon Boy. I am not and refused to sing that song. Once again I was treated as an outcast, something I learned to live with in my family and my church.

    The Prophet Samuel called Saul to be king of Israel because the people wanted what God did not. Knowing what I know today I would not have bowed to Saul. I would have left like many Israelites did. I am not a Mormon no matter what is “allowed” by the Church.

    For anyone that is a practicing homosexual to question my acts concerning Mormonism is laughable since if you are a practicing homosexual and still a member of The Church you are a 100% hypocrite. I know of no scripture of statement of the prophets that condones practicing homosexuality. I, at least, have a verse in the Book of Mormon declaring the words of Christ as to why I am not a Mormon and reject that name.

16. Christopher, I am sorry that you had a hard life. I hope that you will find a good way to deal with your past soon.

17. Christophers shotgun spoof approach reminds me of a Dexter season a few years back where Dexter, concerned the FBI lead task force in his police department will discover hes the Bay Harbor Butcher, writes a bogus manifesto to the local paper that pushes everybodys buttons with the intent of throwing the investigation in a dozen directions at once. But the manifesto fails when the FBI guy realizes the manifesto’s intent when everybody is going crazy like squirrels after scattered nuts and concludes the Bay Harbor Butcher must be a law enforcement insider.

18. http://www.mormonmayday.org

19. I love Dexter. Great show. We need someone like him to take care of the criminals in the police forces since the justice system refuses to do anything about them. But since I am a pacifist it will not be me.

    And I have had a wonderful life. A beautiful wife of 32 years. Four lovely children. My eldest daughter was adopted. We got her out of a awful situation with drug user parents. She had/has Multiple Personality Disorder caused by the local police using her as a pawn to get a drug dealer. She was, not any more, the youngest diagnosed case in the world. It was amazing to se what the the mind is capable of. It gave me a look at what is a choice and what we have no control over. It gave me a hatred of police.

    My parents loved me and did the very best they could to give me what I needed to survive as they saw the world. They gave me the true and everlasting gospel. They gave me a love of liberty. They taught me to trust no one and that all men are sinners.

    I have been given the opportunity to live freer in America than 99% of the Tax Slaves and Social Security Numbered cattle. I have been given the opportunity to fight a tyrannical government and win many times in court.

    And I am dealing with my past and the injuries to my body and mind by Criminal Cops and corrupt politicians.

    And may all of you have good lives and may you all find joy in this life and may you be happy in the next.

20. Kate — Your site looks quite interesting (not to mention relevant to our discussion).

    Care to elaborate?

21. Hello there, I found your website via Google while searching for a related topic, your website came up, it looks great. I’ve bookmarked it in my google bookma