Skip to content
Main Street Plaza

A Community for Anyone Interested in Mormonism.

Main Street Plaza

A Community for Anyone Interested in Mormonism.

god based morality

profxm, June 21, 2008

Here’s another good thought from the Cambridge Companion to Atheism. The author of this chapter is addressing the question of morality – Can you be moral without god? Amazingly, his arguments are so compelling that, by the end of the chapter, you’re left with the inverse question: Can you be at all moral if you base your morals on god? Here’s one of the more cogent arguments ,

For if voluntarism were true, then two situations could have different moral properties even if there were no natural differences between them whatsoever. One system of apartheid could be unjust, but a complete clone of that system need not be unjust – if God’s attitudes to the two tokens of the same type were different. In this conflict between supervenience and voluntarism, it is easier to accept supervenience than voluntarism. (p. 153)

In the quote, voluntarism is basically defined as “something being “good” because the god/gods say it is good”. Thus, the author argues, a god can contradict itself by simply pointing to one thing and saying it is good and pointing to a seperate, but identical thing, and saying it is bad. In short, basing your morality on god’s will is basing your morality on the whims of an unknowable deity. Not a particularly safe bet.

Atheism

Post navigation

Previous post
Next post

Related Posts

impossibility arguments

June 23, 2008June 23, 2008

Here are a few more intriguing thoughts from The Cambridge Companion to Atheism. This first one is a simple refutation of the idea of an omnipotent god, The traditional problem for omnipotence is the paradox of the stone: Could God create a stone too heavy for him to lift? If…

Read More

atheism – the bane of Mormonism

June 17, 2010May 17, 2011

I’m not exactly sure what is going on, but apparently the LDS Church is increasingly worried about this whole atheism thing. Russell M. Nelson just gave a talk to young adults in Massachusetts in which he railed against atheism. This combines with a talk from the October 2009 conference (I…

Read More

Today’s Sunday School lesson is on “open-mindedness”

April 5, 2009
Read More

Comments (11)

  1. Wayne says:
    June 21, 2008 at 9:25 am

    Or some “good” action, may end up having an adverse effect. How can any action be deemed moral when you don’t know the actual outcome, besides the immediate one.

    So, if you have a god who has absolute control over every action, it is easy to put the outcome of every action up to his or her whimsy, relieving the actor of having to think about all the possible out comes, and taking responsibility for those outcomes.

  2. Seth R. says:
    June 21, 2008 at 10:04 am

    I actually don’t disagree too much with this generally, however…

    “basing your morality on the whims of an unknowable deity. Not a particularly safe bet.”

    That assumes the deity is “unknowable.”

  3. Stephanie says:
    June 21, 2008 at 10:25 am

    Seth, are you suggesting that there is a defense for the idea that deity is knowable that would stand up in a court of law? Or even a first-year philosophy class?

  4. Seth R. says:
    June 22, 2008 at 1:06 am

    Stephanie, if we waited for that sort of evidence in everything in our lives, we’d never get anything done.

    I feel like I know at least a few things about God quite well for myself. Enough that I feel perfectly fine in attempting to use Him as a moral reference point.

    And honestly, I don’t care if your philosophy class or the local municipal court agree with me or not.

  5. profxm says:
    June 22, 2008 at 6:03 am

    Seth, how do you “know” this deity? Is it based on the previous argument: mystical experience?

  6. Seth R. says:
    June 22, 2008 at 7:19 am

    It’s an intuitive familiarity, backed up by an overwhelming sense that my life has been “looked after.”

  7. Seth R. says:
    June 22, 2008 at 7:22 am

    That and I actually like what I find in scripture.

  8. Stephanie says:
    June 22, 2008 at 3:40 pm

    Seth, if you have established that your belief defies logic, then it doesn’t make sense to try to point out an underlying assumption in someone’s argument against your belief. If something is unknowable according to science and according to logic, then saying that it is unknowable is not really an assumption. As far as logic goes it is a pretty sound argument. You seem to be okay with this, so I don’t really understand your motivation here…

  9. Seth R. says:
    June 22, 2008 at 4:05 pm

    Mostly just trying to establish that the beliefs are not completely irrational.

  10. Ray Agostini says:
    June 22, 2008 at 4:20 pm

    Can you be moral without god?

    Another way of phrasing this:

    “Can you be moral without parents?”

    When I was about five, I walked into a neighbour’s home and saw a beautiful model of a ship. I liked it, so I took if off the shelf and took it home to play. No guilt whatsoever. Then my horrified mother asked where I got it from. From the neighbour’s home, anything wrong with that? I got my first lesson/lecture in “thou shalt not steal”. My whole moral foundation was given to me by my parents, backed up by years in Catholic schools. Maybe it’s a case of Vox populi, vox dei (The voice of the people is the voice of God).

  11. Guy Noir Private Eye says:
    June 22, 2008 at 9:56 pm

    ‘IF’ basic right & wrong originate with man, then they’re changeable – adaptable to men; IF their origin is of God, then they’re (more or less) constant, don’t change with fashions or times.
    Isn’t that we (all?) tried to live Religion?
    ‘O thou that changest not….’
    Mormonism is changing & has changed (other than the telling of History!)
    The GAs (specifically in my case) and lower leaders waffled on the essentials of Christian Living in favor of a TBM divorce; it was like Mercy-Compassion, Repentance & Forgiveness Didn’t Exist At ALL;
    If they’re given up for Anything, they’re given up for ALL.
    Shame on LDS, Inc for the way they write-off & exclude people with genuine (most any) questions / doubts….
    the closer one gets to something ‘sensitive’ , the more they point ‘blame’ on the one with questions; i.e. Those who want the truth.
    Turns my Stomach.

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *

Mormon Alumni Association Books

Latest Comments:

  1. termal kamerayla su kaçak tespiti on LDS vs LGBTQ:  Nathan Kitchen sheds false binariesJune 21, 2025

    termal kamerayla su kaçak tespiti Ekip çok organize, kaça?? an?nda bulup çözdüler. https://bence.net/read-blog/25188

  2. Cara B. Klein on My conspiracy theory #2April 26, 2025

    Wow, I had never thought about it in that way before You have really opened my eyes to a new…

  3. chanson on LDS vs LGBTQ:  Nathan Kitchen sheds false binariesApril 16, 2025

    The haiku at the end is lovely. Sounds like a great book!

  4. Donna Banta on LDS vs LGBTQ:  Nathan Kitchen sheds false binariesApril 14, 2025

    I imagine anyone who has tried to change the church from within will identify with Kitchen's story. I especially like…

  5. Johnny Townsend on LDS vs LGBTQ:  Nathan Kitchen sheds false binariesApril 14, 2025

    This was a painful review to read. For many years, I held the same hope, that the LDS church would…

8: The Mormon Proposition Acceptance of Gays Add new tag Affirmation angry exmormon awards Book Reviews BYU comments Conformity Dallin H. Oaks DAMU disaffected mormon underground Dustin Lance Black Ex-Mormon Exclusion policy Excommunicated exmormon faith Family feminism Gay Gay Love Gay Marriage Gay Relationships General Conference Happiness Homosexual Homosexuality LDS LGBT LGBTQ Link Bomb missionaries Modesty Mormon Mormon Alumni Association Mormonism motherhood peace politics Polygamy priesthood ban Sunstone temple

Awards

William Law X-Mormon of the Year:

  • 2023: Adam Steed
  • 2022: David Archuleta
  • 2021: Jeff T. Green
  • 2020: Jacinda Ardern
  • 2019: David Nielsen
  • 2018: Sam Young
  • 2017: Savannah
  • 2016: Jeremy Runnells
  • 2015: John Dehlin
  • 2014: Kate Kelly
  • 2013: J. Seth Anderson and Michael Ferguson
  • 2012: David Tweede
  • 2011: Joanna Brooks
  • 2010: Monica Bielanko
  • 2009: Walter Kirn

Other Cool Sites!

WasMormon.org
©2025 Main Street Plaza | WordPress Theme by SuperbThemes