Dedicated to commenter Geoff J. over at Nine Moons.
There is a HUGE difference between using SSA as a descriptive term and saying something judgmental like struggling with SSA. — Geoff J.
Welcome to your church, Geoff, the church of Evergreen International:
Is it just me or does Geoff’s church not come off as extremely judgmental in this clip?
And is it just me, or isn’t L. (Larry) Lionel Kendrick a total rube? Resource’ ? Jesus H. Christ. And speaking of Jesus …
It makes me sad to say this, but the truth is that our church has nothing to offer gay people but isolation, sadness, loneliness, and the empty pretense of empathy. Nothing. As Ive said a million times: Jesus will not change your sexual orientation, but He will make you pretty miserable if you try. — DKL
I’ve renamed “Evergreen” to “Evergross” (at least on my blog — I hope it catches on).
Mostly as a memo to myself, but I’d appreciate any help: I need to be reminded of the dates and venue for the next Evergross conference. Blogging is fun but flying in and causing a commotion would be oh so much funner. Marginalization is not rocket science. It works and it’s why Paul Mero now only gets a few hundred views for his pathetic YouTube clips:
Good God the man is a menace.
I think it’s always a few weeks before confrunz in mid-September.
This year’s was Sept. 18th; last year’s was around the same time.
Thanks! In that case, I’ll look forward to talking about this next fall.
In the meantime …
In Memoriam (Hi, Dr. Strauss): A Tired, Intellectually Exhausted And Enfeebled Mere Coalition Of Disparate Interest Groups Tries Improv Narrative And Political Action
Just come up with a handy little phrase to remind yourself, like, “If it’s Labor Day, it’s soon time to hate the gays” or something like that. (Yeah, good thing I don’t write jingles and slogans for a living.)
Here’s my take on this year’s Evergross (and it has a link to last year’s):
Regarding that Mero clip, wow, just wow.
I went back and listened to that Mormon Stories you recommended where a BYU professor talks about the biology of homosexuality — it’s very clear and informative. Mero should listen to it.
Also, Mero’s opening, where he claims that everything in the original version of BKP’s talk is doctrinally correct — that sort of thing is the reason why it burns me that the LDS church refuses to state clearly why the talk was changed. It’s a dishonest tactic to give themselves plausible deniability for either message.
I’ve got video of Paul Mero introducing Sheri L. Dew introducing Russell M. Nelson at the “World Congress of Families” in Amsterdam. It’s like Six Degrees of Kevin Bacon with these wingnuts. And the reality is that the LDS church is funding them.
That Mero clip is…. is a hell of a lot to wake up to.
I don’t know how to wrap my head around the fact that they really seem to believe they have a “live and let live” policy towards others, as he claims…. “We’ll let you live as long as you construct your families in ways we approve of, and think of yourself the way we think of you, and don’t get uppity and ask for change, and in return, you have no right to criticize us, or challenge us, or interfere with our policies in any way, shape or form”–that’s what “live and let live” boils down to?
Oh, I’ve got plenty of Paul Mero clips lying around. Here’s another doozy (from back during the “Common Ground” debates with Equality Utah):
Pam’s House Blend: Paul Mero: Sexual orientation is an illusion.
Watch for these gems: ‘Sexual orientation is an illusion.’ ‘Your idea of rights is an illusion.’ ‘Your equality is illusory.’
Guys like Paul could give a fig about winning arguments. The whole point is to corral an audience and persuade. And the only way to neutralize guys like Paul is to humiliate them publicly. The LDS church kinda/sorta did that when they supported SLC’s anti-discrimination ordinance, which is why Paul’s not really a concern at this point. His wings have been clipped. I think the next focus of attention needs to be on Evergreen. The only way they get away with their BS is by flying under the radar. But that can change. And now that BKP is out of the way, that change is coming.
Shooting off an email to them now to ask if they’d like to guest post here at MSP: firstname.lastname@example.org
CB, can you provide info about this guy? Not much shows up when I google him except his connection to the Sutherland Institute, and his bio and so forth there is fairly uninformative, except to reveal that he went to BYU and loves both his wife and Ronald Reagan.
Here’s what I’ve got handy:
That’s Jeff Reynolds, not Paul Mero, in the YouTube clip. But if you write anything about Sutherland, you’ve gotta mention Jeff’s assault charge.
“SSA” as a so-called descriptor and “struggling with SSA” are both insulting and only used by anti-gays to demonize and dehumanize gay people. Despite what some in that comment thread claim, no reputable scientists use that term. It’s only used by religious bigots and the phony scientists that staff groups like NARTH. The American Psychological Association, American Psychiatric Association, American Medical Association, etc, do not use use that term because it’s not a legitimate scientific term.
But I’m sure you already know that, Chino.
I just wanted to give kudos, Chino, on the dedication of this thread to Geoff J (couldn’t happen to a more deserving guy) and its subsequent categorisation. Perfect.
Some day when I feel like making lots of enemies all at one go, I will name all the ‘naclers who are on my List. 😉
I am sure we would love to see your list. Maybe you can give us a taste here in the comments of this thread.
Chris — I very much like your posts and perspective, and I want to maintain a friendly relationship between MSP and FPR. I’m sorry there was some unpleasantness, but I hope we can work it out. I hope I’m misinterpreting and you’re not trying to stir up some conflict here at MSP.
Well, I am almost always trying to stir up trouble. I figured since the post was attacking Geoff J that my comment would fit the spirit of things. Wry mentioned she might have such a list.
chanson, I highly doubt Chino has any interest in maintaining any friendly relationship.
Chris — I hope you don’t take offense, and I hope you’re wrong about Chino not wanting to keep things friendly between us and FPR.
I followed the links on Wry’s earlier comment to some comments where some ‘nacclers dismissively insulted DAMU blogs. I was not pleased by what they’re saying about us, but I’d really prefer not to stoop to that level and get into a brawl about it here. It’s just not the point of MSP. Sorry to be a goody-two-shoes. 😉
Chanson’s right, I was still just a wee bit pissy about that crap I read that I linked earlier, a lot of which was Geoff J (he also rips on FMH, which is a blog I like). I don’t actually have any desire to diss anyone in specific, or the ‘nacle as a whole. And frankly, the personality clashes one experiences online? They are not religion- or non-religion-specific. They’re just those quirks that happen sometimes. All’s good, sorry I brought it up like a passive-aggressive weenie. 😀
I tend to be more on the active-aggressive side. Geoff J is s good friend of mine even though I do not always agree with him. chanson, I appreciate that you are also such a friend.
Cool, I’m glad there’s no hard feelings. 😀
So, I want to clear up a few things in my own head. Is the link between Evergreen and Sutherland only an ideological link, or are there individuals part of both groups? It seems unlikely to me, since Sutherland is about public policy whereas Evergreen is about the Church, and Sutherland folks seem so angry at the “homosexual agenda” that I have trouble seeing them as “helping” those with SSA.
Does anybody know if the folks at Sutherland are almost all LDS or if they’re a mix of various types of conservatives? Either way, it’s interesting that they took a position against the Church when it came to the SLC nondiscrimination ordinances, calling it a “public relations opportunity.” I think we’ve discussed here before about the Church is unwilling to discipline conservatives. However, Sutherland also came to Packer’s defense; Paul Mero called on HRC to prove that homosexuals are born gay.
Apparently, Mero made the same assumption I made, which was that anger over Packer was orchestrated nationally. He says it began with the Salt Lake Tribune and then probably thinks HRC got a hold of it and made it bigger.
I would suggest that people read my last post because I think it’s obvious that people are speaking past one another here.
The other thing I notice here, though, is Sutherland ignores groups like Affirmation or Pride in Utah, considering them small fish who follow the ways of the larger gay fish. Unfortunately for Sutherland, it’s the local level that they need to pay attention to, because that’s where organization is happening. Sutherland is too caught up in the “homosexual agenda” to keep their feet on the ground.
And now, as a special treat for friend of the blog, Chris H., I present the soothing sounds of Beck’s “It’s All in Your Mind”.
And I’ll let MCQ and DKL have the last word … #212 re Geoff J. on that 9Moons thread (linked to in the OP) is a classic. And #235 re B.K. Packer sounds about right, too.
Just dropping this KSL report re Evergreen (David Pruden), APA, Mormonism, Equality Utah (Will Carlson) for future reference:
And this link as well as this one.